Minimal News_

Well, it's a bold hypothesis that a household washing machine should sterilise clothes. It's a machine to reduce the load of microorganisms to a manageable level and to remove dirt, fat, and odours. I don't get how the authors arrive at their hypothesis. Before washing machines, people washed clothes with their hands. Cooking them in a pot was only viable with very robust fabrics made from cotton/hemp/flax. I seriously doubt that the microbial load would have been lower before the invention of washing machines. And with older washing machines, using those nasty aggressive washing agents: Maybe, but your clothes would not last that long (there's this difference between old US-style washing machines that just stir and don't heat and EU washing machines that have a drum that turns and always heat the water).

And then, "potential pathogens" in the biofilm in the machine. Ah, well. My skin and mouth are also full of potential pathogens. I don't know what this study is trying to show. Washing machines are not sterile, I guess.

For almost 100% of the history of washing textiles, sterilization was never even remotely a goal. In most cases, sterilization is undesirable and would likely contribute to the growing proportion of autoimmune deficiencies.

Do you also sterilize your kitchenware? Well, given the population bias of HN, probably some of you do, but the vast majority of humankind do not. If you don't sterilize things you put into your mouth, I don't see why you'd expect this for clothes.

So it is amazingly unsurprising that consumer washing machines don't sterilize clothes. Just as you need to take extra care to sterilize kitchenware when you're doing anything fermenty, hospitals shouldn't have been relying on home washing machines.

Are people perplexed by the prevalence of bacteria in residential washing machines? That’s what the smell is when clothes are left wet for too long or the door is left open, preventing drying.

Though I wonder what effect a standard load with bleach would have when used in a load or if that’s simply what the article refers to as their disinfectant test.

Headline caveat: specifically for medical staff. I didn't realize they have to wash their own work clothes, I always assumed that was done by a professional company using high temperatures and specialized products, if it was even washed to begin with instead of incinerated. The more you know.

With the prevalence of vanity scrubs from figs now I doubt most nurses and doctors I’ve seen recently are throwing their fancy scrubs into the communal wash.

60C held for 15+ minutes should be enough for sterilization. The research paper says they washed at 60C but that the quick cycle was especially poor at sterilization. Other than that I didn’t read the paper closer to see if it was a temperature control problem or not enough time at 60C or something else.

I'll wager the ones that do the poorest job in removing pathogens are also the most power and water efficient. Trade-offs matter.

Drying is far more destructive to pathogens. The "sanitize" option is on the dryer, not the washer.

On my dryer, it says "sanitize with regular fabric selected (and manual time set to maximum)".

It's little suspicious that the paper was written by George Jefferson.

This is why I hate seeing all the medical people in their scrubs in the supermarket and coffeeshops around campus.

The ones in this study are all relatively new front-loaders. I would've liked to see some much older and top-loader machines in there too, along with "traditional" TSP-based detergent.

That's why you dry your clothes on the washing line in the sun?

Would adding Oxi Clean or somesuch powder to the wash help to sterilize clothing?

Dna of a bacteria being in your machine surely doesn't mean there are live bacteria in the machine

What if you use that Lysol laundry disinfectant?

I like Dr Annie's laundry experiments:

https://www.dranniesexperiments.com/laundry-experiments

? You dont cook the cloths in a auto-clave- you just move it in warm water with soap- and the soap dissolves the fatty hull of the pathogens. Of course you can still detect them- the dna is still there floating around.

Do hospitals seriously allow people to launder their own uniforms?

That would never be allowed in the food industry.

You need to add sanitizer to the wash cycle, not just detergent.

First, I neither have an eidetic memory or links to the patents nor lawsuit. However....

I remember finding a lawsuit, if I remember correctly, between Samsung and a certain municipality of an unremembered state.

The patent involved a lining within surfaces of the washing and drying systems for hospitals which impart silver particles. The marketing part suggested it would spare x amount of bleach and have equal or greater efficacy.

The municipal water waste management objected based on the breakdown phase of the sewage relying on bacteria. The silver, they surmised, would obviously hinder this process and so on.

Then, as a side note, you have products from waste management called eg Sludge, which is used as fertilizer. Supposedly it is forbidden on vegetable crops, but I once interviewed a cattle rancher who said his subsidies were dependent on his acceptance and use of Sludge.

Further aside, the real problem here is the 'forever chemicals' that accompany these products. It tends to permanently compromise the land it's used on.

I remember the rancher telling me he's seen his cows chewing on condoms.

Hard to know what to make of this when the types of detergent are not disclosed. I recall in 2022, Oxyclean was recommended for destroying MPOX virions.

Maybe use a long cycle for the washer.

I thought that was the point of the dryer? The washing machine just removes dirt.